W T E C I I I E L E C T R O N I C C O N T R O L S T R O U B L E S H O O T I N G M A N U A L 0011 00-62 Main code 23 indicates a fault with a shift selector or the wiring between a shift selector and the ECU. Active Indicator Clearing Procedure: Power down Manual Self-clearing NOTE: Before troubleshooting, read Paragraph 56. Troubleshooting: 1. Clear the active indicator for code 23XX. If code recurs, continue to Step (2).
Check for a poor connection at the shift selector. NOTE: Code 23 12 can result when the +5V line (wire 124) which powers the shift selector is shorted to ground. Wire 124 also powers the TPS, OLS, RMR, retarder temperature sensor, and sump oil temperature sensor and is present in all three ECU connectors. Disconnect the selector S harness connector from the ECU and from the shift selector and check for opens, shorts, and shorts-to-ground between the shift selector and ECU (refer to Section 4).
If no problem is found with the shift selector connection or wiring, replace the shift selector. If the condition persists, replace the ECU. If replacing the ECU corrects the problem, reinstall the original (bad) ECU to confirm that the problem is in the ECU. If the original ECU now works, in- spect the ECU connectors for any corrosion or damage which may cause an intermittent condition. If the original problem recurs, reinstall the replacement ECU. Main Code Subcode Meaning 23 12 Primary shift selector fault a cateye type display may occur 23 13 Primary shift selector mode function fault. Mode change not permitted 23 14 Secondary shift selector fault a cateye type display may occur 23 15 Secondary shift selector mode function fault.
Mode change not permitted 23 16 Shift selector display line fault CODE 23 XX SHIFT SELECTOR (Figure 56).
Otto Trucking Inc & Otto Logistics LLC has equipment that comes with automatic transmission. We currently have Allison 4000 series models, 6 speed Allison Transmissions. As many of you drivers know these have a tendency to shift hard. Allison Transmission has now made improvements with a new transmission called the Allison TC-10, and Otto Trucking now has 4 coming into its fleet and more to come down the road.The TC-10 transmission is a 10 speed automatic transmission where as the 4000 series is only a 6 speed automatic. The TC-10 has several of the features that the 4000 series has, But the TC-10 has more to offer you the driver. It has smoother shifting, ability to learn if loaded or empty to help in the shifting process. When you select drive it goes straight to 3rd gear and once you begin accelerate it learns if it is loaded/empty, if loaded it drops gears and keeps torque applied to help make equipment move more efficient, if empty it knows to back off on torque and help save on fuel.The TC-10 series transmissions have an excellent feature for the types of terrain that we deal with.
If you press the reverse button you will get R1 then pressing the up arrow you will get R2 feature. The R2 feature is useful in slippery situations, Ice, Snow, Mud, ETC when EMPTY or bobtail. What this feature does is not allow so much torque to be applied to the wheels right away giving you better traction in the conditions when backing up. It is not used for backing up faster it just helps control wheel spin in reversing operations during slippery conditions. If you use R2 when loaded you are using this transmission incorrect and will cause damage.
Only use R2 when empty or bobtail.While having a TC-10 transmission on a down grade and the engine brakes is applied the transmission can go from 10th gear to 6th gear giving you the ability to keep in control better.I will always tell each and ever driver I meet though to never trust you life on the electronics, as we all know electronics can fail. So always be in the right gear for the situation.Allison Transmission has given Otto Trucking Inc.
Information for us to share with you the driver to help you understand this transmission and it features to make your job easier all the way around. Please read thru the information and watch the short video. If you have any questions please feel free to ask Ralph then and he will answer them and if he does not know he will make contact with the Allison Transmission representative to get you the answer you need. Some of this information can be applied to the 4000 series transmission with the 5th generation electronic controls.
This evening, Vita and I went to the storage lot to take Evangeline for fueling in preparation for a trip to Chattanooga, TN this weekend. She started and aired up fine, but when I got ready to roll and punched the 'D' pad on the transmission shift control pad - nothing!!!:eek: The reverse pad works, the 'mode' pad works, but 'D' is totally nonresponsive! Has anyone experienced this problem before and know of a 'work around' method to get the bus to go into gear so we can roll?I'm admittedly not mechanically inclined and don't know where to begin to troubleshoot this issue, but I suspect that the problem is in the keypad contacts. Does that make sense?:confused:Because the bus is in a secure storage lot and won't go into a forward gear, I can't even drive it to a repair shop to have it diagnosed and repaired!I'm on the verge of being in the doghouse big time with Vita and our daughter because this Chattanooga trip was a Christmas present to our daughter to take her and her best friend to Chattanooga in the bus to see her favorite comedian, Brian Regan (never heard of him before this!) Sunday night! Of course, Vita and I are seeing our favorite comedian, Ron White, at the same venue the night before (Saturday night).So, I've got to work fast to solve this problem before I ruin the weekend with a broken bus! Can anyone provide some emergency guidance?Thanks!:o.
Michael,The same thing happened to me about 2 years ago. I found that pressing down firmly and rolling my finger around on the 'D' would get it to work. It did this 4 or 5 more times so I started looking for a new selector pad on eBay. They were expensive if I remember correctly, about $600 so I just kept looking trying to find one at a good price.After a month of looking on eBay the problem disappeared! It has been 2 years and the selector has worked flawlessly! Go figure!Hope rolling your finger on the 'D' helps. Just keep messing with it, and it should work.
Several things prevent it from going into drive such as trying to shift on high idle, or if the temperature in the transmission is less than a certain value.I suggest trying to shift at low idle after warming up the coach.You also have the ability to read codes so if it still will not shift see if there are active codes which can be accessed and read from the keypad.Jon - I'm certain that I had switched to low idle before trying to shift. In fact, I shifted successfully into reverse and moved the bus back a few feet and then tried to shift to Neutral and then Drive again. It went to Neutral with no problem, but would not respond when I pressed the 'D' pad.The ambient temperature outside at the time was about 41 degrees and I had warmed the engine up on high idle for several minutes.I'm unfamiliar with how to read or interpret the codes you mentioned.
Michael,The same thing happened to me about 2 years ago. I found that pressing down firmly and rolling my finger around on the 'D' would get it to work. It did this 4 or 5 more times so I started looking for a new selector pad on eBay. They were expensive if I remember correctly, about $600 so I just kept looking trying to find one at a good price.After a month of looking on eBay the problem disappeared!
It has been 2 years and the selector has worked flawlessly! Go figure!Hope rolling your finger on the 'D' helps. Just keep messing with it, and it should work.Tuga - while trying to get it to shift today, I pressed the pad every way and from every angle I could think of, including 'rolling' my finger on the pad while pressing firmly.
I'm going to try again in the morning! Wish me luck! Michael,Try the following link from the Prevost online Technical manuals site for transmissions. It has the procedure for pulling up codes on your shift pad.
Also has some trouble shooting info and references to other technical documents that may be of help.Gordon! I'm printing the pages at the link you posted right now (32 of them) and am taking them to the bus this morning for reference! Man, I love POG! It's worth every penny of the $500 annual dues that Skiffer charges me!:p. Michael,Maybe this will help; hope so. Skiff only charges me $400/year:DtorsCarTruckPartsAccessories?hash=item35a5b220 f7Thanks Tuga!
Actually my keypad unit looks more like this one: Allison Gen IV Push Button Shifter / Pad (ssories)I went back to the bus this morning armed with the info from all the responses to this thread so far. Alas - no luck! I called W.W. Williams (a Detroit/Allison service facilty) in Atlanta and the guy there had me put the tranny into the code reading mode and read him what the screen showed.
The good news is that there were no active codes. The bad news is that they can't get road service to me until late this afternoon. My guy at Apalachee RV thinks it may be a relay or solenoid (?) but can't help me further without me bringing the bus to him (and of course, it won't move). I'm not ready for a 60 mile tow, so I'll wait on the W.W.
Williams road service and keep my fingers crossed!:rolleyes. Actually my keypad unit looks more like this one: Allison Gen IV Push Button Shifter / Pad (ssories)I went back to the bus this morning armed with the info from all the responses to this thread so far. Alas - no luck! I called W.W. Williams (a Detroit/Allison service facilty) in Atlanta and the guy there had me put the tranny into the code reading mode and read him what the screen showed.
The good news is that there were no active codes. The bad news is that they can't get road service to me until late this afternoon. My guy at Apalachee RV thinks it may be a relay or solenoid (?) but can't help me further without me bringing the bus to him (and of course, it won't move).
I'm not ready for a 60 mile tow, so I'll wait on the W.W. Good news/bad news. Bad news first - The mechanic/technician from W.W. Williams called me this afternoon and said he had researched my symptoms and it sounds like I need a new shifter module. His location did not have one in stock and the closest location that does is in Alabama. He's having the part air freighted in to arrive tomorrow and is having it delivered to his home. When it arrives, he will call me and arrange to come to Woodstock and put it in (he is in Atlanta - about 30 miles from me).Now the good news - he told me that I could try using the blunt end of a writing pen to push hard on the 'D' pad and sometimes that would work as a temporary work-around.
I grabbed a pen off my desk, headed to the bus, started and warmed her up, then held my breath and used the pen to push the 'D'. After poking around (literally 'poking it with a stick') a bit, it clicked into gear! To make sure it wasn't a one time fluke, I shifted to Neutral and then poked 'D' with the pen again and it eventually went into gear! Now I was feeling brave to I took her to get fuel and then brought her home to load for the trip to Chattanooga tomorrow. We will decide what to do about the W.W. Williams guy coming out tomorrow depending on what time the part arrives. If it arrives in time to still get us on the road before 4:00PM, we can make our commitment in Chattanooga tomorrow night.
If the part arrives too late to get us safely on the road in time, I've decided to take my chances with the 'pen poke' work around and have the shifter replaced next week after we return.Once again, thank you to all our POG buddies who responded with info, advice, and suggestions! You're the best!:D. Michael,Williams has a place in Acworth, just about 8 miles west of you off Hwy 92 at I-75 and the phone is (678) 574-9251. They suck with buses, I do buy parts there, but maybe they have a pad in stock and since they're so close to you, you could run over there and talk to them.I was also going to mention that the pads will go bad if they get wet.Tom - W.W. Williams in Acworth was my first call yesterday, but they couldn't get to me because they were covered up with road service calls. It was them that referred me to the Moreland Ave. The tech that I'm working with there did a search for the part and the closest one he found was in Alabama (being air freighted in today).
I'm getting ready to call him right now (he gave me his personal cell number) and check to see if he's gotten the part yet and while I'm at it, I'll ask about trying to replace just the pad first to see if that resolves it. Either way - we're leaving town around noon!:D. We made it to Chattanooga - no problem! In the RV park now finishing lunch and preparing to go explore a bit before heading to the Tivoli Theatre in the toad tonight to see comedian Ron White. The 'pen poke' method of shifting worked like a charm!
We even stopped at a Pilot Truck Stop and had Evangeline weighed by individual axle. She was full of fuel, a little over half full of fresh water and grey/black bilge (plus two teen girls, a hot wife, 2 small dogs, and an overweight driver). Also, we carry our golf cart style electric cart in the front bay. The weight ticket shows:Steer axle - 15,340 lbsDrive axle - 19,580 lbTag axle - 15,060 lbsGross Weight - 49,980 lbsThat's almost 4,000 lbs heavier than I thought she was!
How do I find out if this weight is within the acceptable range for my specific coach/chassis? Also, shouldn't the tires be inflated/adjusted depending on the axle weight at each tire position?Once again, I find myself asking for the POG braintrust to educate me!:oI'm going to also post this as a new thread to keep these questions from getting lost in the thread creep of this one. I apologize in advance for the duplication! It is on a data plate, typically located next to the driver's seat. It will list individual axle weight limits and maximum gross weight.Using those weights you now need to look up the tire pressures for each axle.guess is you are seriously overweight and should start considering how to bring those weights down to something near the limits for your coach, or recognize that you may have to adjust your driving habits to compensate for the additional stresses those excess weights impose on your air bags, brakes, bearings, etc.
It is on a data plate, typically located next to the driver's seat. It will list individual axle weight limits and maximum gross weight.Using those weights you now need to look up the tire pressures for each axle.guess is you are seriously overweight and should start considering how to bring those weights down to something near the limits for your coach, or recognize that you may have to adjust your driving habits to compensate for the additional stresses those excess weights impose on your air bags, brakes, bearings, etc.Jon - you were correct with your guess. The data plate shows:Steer axle - 14,600 lbsDrive axle - 20,400 lbsTag axle - 12,000 lbsGross weight - 47,000 lbsThat puts me almost 3,000 lbs overweight!
Ack!:eek:On tire inflation table. Are the weights listed per wheel or per axle? In other words, do I need to divide the numbers by two (for the steer axle and tag axle) and by four (for the drive axle) to get the weight per tire? I'm confuzzled!:confused:Any ideas on how to shed weight? I'm already on a diet and have lost 18 lbs since December 14th on my way to losing 65 lbs. I don't think I have enough to lose to get Evangeline under weight, though!:rolleyes.
Michael, when you get a chance have the bus weighed in total. If the area around the scale is not perfectly level it will throw off the individual axle weights significantly. My guess is that your coach is not as heavy as those weights would indicate. If you find that the coach weighs in the 47K range, you could then drop the individual weights proportionally. It is also unusual to have the tag weigh as much as the front axle on a non-slide XLV. If that is accurate you may want to have your ride height checked.
'On tire inflation table. Are the weights listed per wheel or per axle? In other words, do I need to divide the numbers by two (for the steer axle and tag axle) and by four (for the drive axle) to get the weight per tire? I'm confuzzled!'
The answer is yes; divide the axle weight you have in actuality by the number of tires on it. And in the case of the drive axle, you need to compare the result against the tire spec for duals, as the weight allowance for a tire mounted as one of a dual is less than as a single. I guess I saw these post thread later on, as I don't see where you state the exact tire model (and make, which I assume is Michelin), size, and rim diameter (I am sure in this case the rim diameter would be 22.5); be sure of what you have, XTA, XZA, XZA-1, and so on, and the size, all exactly as noted on the tire, when you consult the tire table.If I have mistated anything here, I'm sure be corrected, so watch this thread. Good luck and I hope you can resolve things.
Important.The tire pressure charts reflect single and dual wheels.In the case of the tag and steer axles use the inflation pressures specified for single and on the drive axle use the dual wheel inflation pressures.All are cold pressures, and as a practice I add 5 PSI just to provide a small cushion of added safety should I develop a leak I do not detect right away. If you have a tire pressure sensor system you don't need that extra pressure because you will get an alert before it becomes an issue.Remember.if you run a tire at 20% less than the specified pressure you have effectively ruined it and driving on it could compromise safety. That is not me talking but the tire manufacturers themselves all stating that.As to Steve's comment about ride height and the relation between it and any axle weight I do not understand how that impacts axle weights. We only have 3 ride height vales. One centrally mounted for the two front axle air bags, and one on each side (located ahead of the drive wheels in the wheel well) for the left or right rear. When the ride height valves are in the circuit (they are out of the air circuit when in the level low position) the rear ride height valves supply air flow to or remove air from the 3 air bags (2 drive one tag) on their respective sides.
All three rear air bags per side have equal air pressure in them regardless of the height adjustment.Having said that the drive axle air bags are different than the tag air bags on coaches I am familiar with. It is that diference that maintains the weight distribution in the rear between the tag and drive. The tag air bags are generally the same as the front air bags and are slightly greater in diameter (although described as the same) than the drive air bags. The only way to adjust the relationship of weights on our coach rear axles using the leveling / ride system is to use varying size air bags as Prevost has already done.There has been a misconception in the past that the ride quality on our coaches can be adjusted firmer or softer by adjusting air bag pressures. That is not the case. Using the ride height valves brings our buses to a specified height by adding or exhausting air from the air bags until the bus reaches the set height. The air pressure increases or decreases based on the loads each set of air bags must carry.
A bus with a heavy front for example is going to take a lot of air pressure to rise to the correct ride height, or less if the front end is relatively light.In the case of the 3 rear air bags on each side they all share the exact same pressure because they are all interconnected when thye system is in the road or driving position. Kenneth - actually, I just put on a new set of Firestone FS400's, load rating J.To make absolutely sure I understand how to use the tire inflation table, is it correct that I would divide the inflation table numbers by two (single) for the steer and tag axles or divide by four (dual) for the drive axle to get the correct recommended PSI per individual tire?Michael,See the excerpt below from the Michelin load and pressure table guide - no dividing by 4.in fact, no dividing at all. Technically, they are saying weigh each axle end and inflate all tires on axle to max end inflation indicated. Dividing by 2 works obviously but is still not the same as weighing each axle end. Rounding up 5 or 10 psi should cover any error by using the total axle weight average rather than weighing each end separately:In the load and inflation tables, SINGLE means an axle with one tire mounted on each end, while DUAL means an axle with two tires mounted on each end.
The loads indicated represent the total weight of an axle end in an RV application. When one axle end weighs more than the other, use the heaviest of the two end weights to determine the unique tire pressure for all tires on the axle. The maximum cold air pressure for each axle may vary, depending on their weights. These tables are applicable for all RV axles, whether or not they are power-driven. Michael,See the excerpt below from the Michelin load and pressure table guide - no dividing by 4.in fact, no dividing at all. Technically, they are saying weigh each axle end and inflate all tires on axle to max end inflation indicated.
Dividing by 2 works obviously but is still not the same as weighing each axle end. Rounding up 5 or 10 psi should cover any error by using the total axle weight average rather than weighing each end separately:In the load and inflation tables, SINGLE means an axle with one tire mounted on each end, while DUAL means an axle with two tires mounted on each end. The loads indicated represent the total weight of an axle end in an RV application.
When one axle end weighs more than the other, use the heaviest of the two end weights to determine the unique tire pressure for all tires on the axle. The maximum cold air pressure for each axle may vary, depending on their weights.
These tables are applicable for all RV axles, whether or not they are power-driven.Gordon is completely right, the Michelin tables reflect the whole axle weight (load) and you do not have to divide. The Michelin tables do it for you, no dividing. You have your axle load already, look up the corresponding air pressure and follow the advice about rounding up. Sorry I misled you. Thanks Gordon.
The proper pressures from the Firestone chart for Michael's tag and steer axles is somewhere between 110 and 115 PSI. For the drive the pressures would be around 80 PSI.agree with Steve about rechecking the weights because the tag weight seems unreasonable since his chassis air bags and mine are likely the same and I have a hard time understanding how that much weight can have been shifted onto the tag. I don't doubt the steer axle weight. If that tag axle weight is accurate I would guess at some point oversize air bags have been put on the tag axle and someone needs to check to verify nothing is rubbing.
If the weight is correct consider that by having that much weight on the tag turns will be much harder and the tag tires will get excessive scuffing. I would expect to see the tag axle weights in the 11,000 pound range, maybe 12,000.I hope all new owners are understanding that tire pressures must be adjusted to reflect the axle weights and if the coach has not been weighed it needs to be weighed with full fuel, empty holding tank and full water plus all the personal stuff that is routinely carried. Also, keep in mind that Michelin has two different weight charts, one used for trucks and one used for RV's.The weight ratings are actually the same, except that the truck chart lists total axle weights where the RV chart uses 'corner' weights.I guess they figure RV drivers are more likely to have each tire (or pair of duals) weighed as opposed to truckers who usually only have axle weight information from truck scales. I would also guess that most trucks are more evenly loaded that the typical bus used as an RV.If you have individual weights for your front tires, take the highest weight and use it for your pressure settings on both sides. The same applies to the rest of the axles. From Tom's post I just remembered the golf cart in the bay.Start your weight reduction program there. Lose it.Prevost and the converters are usually way too nice when they are put in the middle by customers that want everything but the kitchen sink in these buses, but the reality is they are built to a certain set of limitations and yours is one that exceeds those.Every component is sized to handle the limits.
Everything from brake surface area to air bag size to bearing capacity to wheels and to tires. Apart from the obvious revenue source most states have scales to keep truckers at or below their weight limits for the safety of the trucker and the other drivers on the road. Our buses are lousy when it comes to stopping and every pound makes a bad situation worse.
When within the limits it takes us almost 3 times as long to stop from a given speed as a car traveling the same speed. Some car that gets rearended may have the golf cart to thank for that and the lawyer representing the family in the lawsuit may have the golf cart to thank for his contingency fee.
'On tire inflation table. Are the weights listed per wheel or per axle? In other words, do I need to divide the numbers by two (for the steer axle and tag axle) and by four (for the drive axle) to get the weight per tire? I'm confuzzled!' The answer is yes; divide the axle weight you have in actuality by the number of tires on it. And in the case of the drive axle, you need to compare the result against the tire spec for duals, as the weight allowance for a tire mounted as one of a dual is less than as a single. I guess I saw these post thread later on, as I don't see where you state the exact tire model (and make, which I assume is Michelin), size, and rim diameter (I am sure in this case the rim diameter would be 22.5); be sure of what you have, XTA, XZA, XZA-1, and so on, and the size, all exactly as noted on the tire, when you consult the tire table.If I have mistated anything here, I'm sure be corrected, so watch this thread.
Good luck and I hope you can resolve things.Okay - Using the axle weights from the weigh ticket, here's what I come up with. Jim - I would actually consider that (I drove an Eagle entertainer coach for years while I was still in the music business pulling an 18 ft dual axle equipment trailer), but I'm already pulling a toad and I don't want to be mistaken for a train!:pMichael, now you are pulling our chain. Are you suggesting the drivers of entertainer coaches did not have to air up their tires?Jim C is also pulling your chain. If you get a trailer we all know you will fill the trailer and your bays and the problem you have now will just get worse. Regarding tire inflation, I keep mine above the recommended charts.
I use the Michelin chart.- I get the whole 'inflating a few lbs more than the chart' thing - makes sense. I'm still struggling with making sure I'm reading the charts right and how to compare my axle weight numbers from the weigh ticket to make sure I'm comparing 'apples to apples' (dividing axle weight numbers by 2 or 4 depending on which axle to get indivual tire weight numbers?).Also, I'm going to take Steve Bennett's recommendation and get the bus re-weighed at a different scale on the way home tomorrow to validate the weight numbers I have now. I'll do it in two passes - once by individual axle and next weighing the bus in total. Michael,Divide your scale weights by 2 per axle, then use the dual numbers for the drive and single numbers for the tag and steer. Here's an example:Steer - 15,340/2=7,670 Use the single weight from tire chartDrive - 19,580/2=9,790 Use the dual weight from the tire chartTag - 15,060/2=7,530 Use the single weight from the tire chartI know nothing about Firestones, but be sure your not exceeding the tire pressures for the weight. Look at the max pressure numbers on the tires.
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Also remember, your tire pressures are going to really increase when they get hot, so it's important that you don't put in too much air when cold.On your way home, stop at exit 306 and re-weigh at the Q-T Truckstop. If they're not busy, you can weigh each wheel position by moving off the scale with each side of the bus. The concrete apron is wide enough to weigh one side then circle around and weigh the other side. Make sure someone is outside helping so your sure to split the axles evenly and not get bad readings. On any of the scales, you can screw up and not get the axles split evenly on each independent scale platform. Also, are you sure your toad didn't end up on your tag axle scale ticket? Always unhook the toad.
Gary - I get the whole 'inflating a few lbs more than the chart' thing - makes sense. I'm still struggling with making sure I'm reading the charts right and how to compare my axle weight numbers from the weigh ticket to make sure I'm comparing 'apples to apples' (dividing axle weight numbers by 2 or 4 depending on which axle to get indivual tire weight numbers?).Also, I'm going to take Steve Bennett's recommendation and get the bus re-weighed at a different scale on the way home tomorrow to validate the weight numbers I have now. I'll do it in two passes - once by individual axle and next weighing the bus in total.Divide your weight by two not four on the drive wheels.
So,if you overall weight on the drive is say 19500 lbs, you would look for 8750 lbs on the chart under duals. If you read the instructions at the top, it indicates weighing each tire individually. If say one of the front tires weighs more than the other on the front, use the heavier weight for air pressure on using the chart. Just my two cents on getting the wieght for eaxh axle. I use a truck scale at a local farmers COOP store that has a flat approch and exit. I put the front axle on the scale, record the wieght then move forward so the drives are also on the scale and record the wieght of the two axles. Last I put all the axles on the scale.
This gives the total wieght. Then do the math to detremine the wieght of each axle. I think using a scale with a flat approach and exit is very important. Ever notice when stopped on a less than level spot how the tires on the low side of the coach willl look low on pressure due to the additional load cause by the coach not being level. A little caution here. IN looking at both the Firestone tables, and the Michelin tables, they are reported differently.The Firestone tables (which match the tires that Michael has) give weights per wheel, even under the used as a dual section.The Michelin tables, however don't, and the weights are listed for both tires combined as a dual axle. So, Tom and Gary's suggestion works fine if you're looking at the Michelin tables.
If you're looking at the Firestone tables, a divide by 4 is needed.Ray. A little caution here. IN looking at both the Firestone tables, and the Michelin tables, they are reported differently.The Firestone tables (which match the tires that Michael has) give weights per wheel, even under the used as a dual section.The Michelin tables, however don't, and the weights are listed for both tires combined as a dual axle. So, Tom and Gary's suggestion works fine if you're looking at the Michelin tables. If you're looking at the Firestone tables, a divide by 4 is needed.RayGood catch, Ray! Thanks for saving me from a potentially serious error (I'm using the Firestone tables that correspond with my new Firestone FS 400's)! As they say - 'ignorance is bliss' and I'm downright giddy with bliss!:o.
I stopped at the QT Truck Stop at exit 306 on the way home, as recommended by Tom to have the bus reweighed with the toad unhooked. For more accuracy, I filled my fresh water tank before leaving Chattanooga this morning and topped off the fuel tanks at the QT before weighing.
Vita went inside and explained to the 'Weigh Master' what we were trying to accomplish. He understood exactly what we were trying to do, but unfortunately, the CAT scales have a metal framework over them that holds up the CAT Scale sign and the intercom box that allows the driver to talk to the Weigh Master. The frame is very close to the edge of the scale pads and prevents you from weighing one side or tire position at a time. Also, he said that because of the way the bus axles are configured that the Cat Scales are not set up to give accurate separate weights per axle on the drive and steer axles (the steer and tag axles are too close together). He recommended weighing the bus in total and the weigh ticket would reflect a separate weight for the steer axle and the combined weight of the drive and tag axles. I'm not sure I understand. This time you weighed the tag and drives combined, and you are subtracting the weight of the drives from previous weighing?
I'm not sure I would do that. I guess it's a pretty good estimate, but.When I've weighed at these CAT scales, I've been able to split the drive and tag onto separate parts of the scale. Obviously this is prone to some degree of error as it's really hard to get this situated so that you get an accurate weight.But, I'm glad your overall weight came down. I'm not sure I understand. This time you weighed the tag and drives combined, and you are subtracting the weight of the drives from previous weighing? I'm not sure I would do that. I guess it's a pretty good estimate, but.When I've weighed at these CAT scales, I've been able to split the drive and tag onto separate parts of the scale.
Obviously this is prone to some degree of error as it's really hard to get this situated so that you get an accurate weight.But, I'm glad your overall weight came down.Ray - I don't know what to say/do. We're just doing what the Weigh Master at the CAT Scale said. He did say that, the way we weighed at the Pilot probably included the weight of the toad with the rear most (tag) axle, so assuming ( yeah, I know about 'assuming'.) that the other axle weights at Pilot were essentially accurate, subtracting the drive axle weight from the Pilot ticket from the combined steer/tag weight on the QT ticket should give a good estimate of the actual tag axle weight.:confused: It made sense when Vita explained what he said! Since the steer axle weight was only 120 lbs difference between the two scale tickets, it seemed like a reasonable way to get a close estimate of the other two axles.
Michael,The weigh master is a fuel clerk and he's full of ca ca! I've weighed there since they opened, side to side, front to rear, with toad, without toad and the numbers were close to other scales I used. I do this 2 or 3 times a year just to check on the crap I'm carrying. If you go back there, call me, I'm 15 miles away and I guarantee you it will work. I have tickets in the bus right now that show side to side numbers from that scale.You may be OK now on your gross, but the steer is still overloaded.Ray - Good catch, I didn't look at the chart, but the end result for the duals are the same?
You have to mentally divide the Michelin numbers by 2. Michael,The weigh master is a fuel clerk and he's full of ca ca! I've weighed there since they opened, side to side, front to rear, with toad, without toad and the numbers were close to other scales I used. I do this 2 or 3 times a year just to check on the crap I'm carrying. If you go back there, call me, I'm 15 miles away and I guarantee you it will work.
I have tickets in the bus right now that show side to side numbers from that scale.You may be OK now on your gross, but the steer is still overloaded.Ray - Good catch, I didn't look at the chart, but the end result for the duals are the same? You have to mentally divide the Michelin numbers by 2.Tom - I'll have to have you show me how to weigh one side at a time on that scale.
That sign frame is almost right up against the scale platforms a little forward of the halfway point of the platforms and doesn't seem to leave any room to maneuver one side off the scale. Since you've done it before, I'm sure I'm missing something, but I sure don't see how it's done!:confused. I sent the following inquiry to Firestone a couple of days ago:I've just had a new set of Firestone FS 400 tires installed on my 1996 Prevost XLV conversion bus (45 feet long) and am trying to determine the correct tire pressure at each axle end to insure safety and long wear. I'm confused about how to use the inflation tables and need guidance. I've had the bus weighed and have a weigh ticket that gives me the weight on each axle (steer, drive, tag). To match up with the inflation charts, do I divide the weigh ticket numbers by 2 for the steer axle, by 4 for the drive axle (duals), and by 2 for the tag axle to find the correct recommended psi on the chart?
When I divide as stated above, I find that the individual derived tire position weight numbers for the drive axle are below the lowest number on the chart, which makes me think I'm doing something wrong. Mike: As an example my 45 Ft.
Liberty weights are as follows:Total Weight 47,450 Lbs.Left Front 7500#- Required Air Psi. 115 #Right Front 7600# -Required Air Psi. 115 #Left Drivers 10,050#-Req.uired Air Psi.
100 #Right Drivers 9100#-Required Air Psi. 100 #Left Tag 6500 # -Req.Air Psi. 90 #Right Tag 6100 # -Req.Air Psi. 90 #Tags up Drivers # 15,700#These weights were aquired using individual scales placed under each tire location courtesy of Weights & Measure personel S, Dakota State at one of our POG Ralley's in Spearfish, SD.Best to use your own coach weights.
Under Inflation causes heat and tire failure.Safe Travels to you. I found this info this morning by searching Prevost's Online tech manuals in the 'Wheels, Hubs, & Tires' section:13.1 Recommended Tire Inflation Pressure (Cold)Inflation pressure should be checked when tires are cold. Driving, even for a short distance, will cause the tire to warm up and the air pressure toincrease. Where are you getting those numbers?Your front weights were 15,200 if I remember correctly.
In the Firestore tables, that's a minimum of 110 pounds. Where in the world are you getting 100 pounds for your steers?Here is the values for your tires.6018I don't see where you are getting 100 pounds for your steers, if you are weighing in at 15,200? I see 110 pounds.And as the Firestone guy said, I personally wouldn't run 90 pounds on your drives, I would bump it to 100. That's just my personal opinion. Obviously, that's not required, but allows you some extra carrying capacity.Ray. I'm zipping up my flame proof suit so feel free to respond.Do you think if it is this hard to figure out how much air to put in your tires you should be driving one of these buses?
Rocket downloads free music. Especially considering that is something that should have been on the to-do list for the first pre-trip inspection.Seeing all these posts, especially with the diverse opinions leads me to believe that if I asked if everyone is doing the pre-trip brake inspections I would be getting the 'deer in the headlights' look.Come on guys. I'm zipping up my flame proof suit so feel free to respond.Do you think if it is this hard to figure out how much air to put in your tires you should be driving one of these buses? Especially considering that is something that should have been on the to-do list for the first pre-trip inspection.Seeing all these posts, especially with the diverse opinions leads me to believe that if I asked if everyone is doing the pre-trip brake inspections I would be getting the 'deer in the headlights' look.Come on guys.O.K. There Sunshine. Who was it that pissed in your cornflakes today?Deer in the headlights???? Where are you getting those numbers?Ray - 'where I got those numbers' was from Prevost's online technical manuals in the 'Wheels, Hubs, & Tires' section.
I wasn't saying that they were appropriate for my/our application - in fact, the reason I posted that info was to highlight the wide range of inflation/load numbers out there which add to the confusion of 'what's right' for idiots like me!At any rate, tomorrow I'm going to adjust the steers to 115 psi and the drives & tags to 100 psi. After reviewing all the diverse specs, suggestions, recommendations, and opinions - those are the numbers that make the most sense to me. I'm now realizing that I way over analyzed this and turned what should have been a simple process into a royal cluster f%#k!:oI realize that I'm driving you guys crazy with idiot questions and for that I apologize.
The problem is that, since my accident my lack of mobility/dexterity prevents me from digging in and figuring out stuff that I would have figured on my own in my former life. It often leaves me to 'depend on the kindness of strangers' these days. The good news is - I do eventually learn and retain what I'm taught (or take damned good notes)!Also, while at the bus tomorrow, I'm going to pull the shift pad module out of its frame and see if I can clean the pad contacts on the back to resolve my shifter issue.
Williams has obtained a new shifter module from Alabama and will install it for me, but the parts are over $1,300 and with labor/time/etc the bill will be over $2,000. The other option is a 'shifter repair kit' that they can get for about $100 from the Greer, SC location, but after labor, tax, tag, & freight - that option would be almost $800 and the tech said he can't guarantee that the repair kit would resolve my issue. (We wouldn't know until after they 'installed' it and then I would have 'bought' it and might still have an inoperable shifter) Soooo.
Before I 'jump off the cliff' with one of the expensive options, I figure I've got nothing to lose by seeing if it's as simple as a dirty or corroded contact on the pad. We'll see.:rolleyes:Sorry guys.:o. Ray - 'where I got those numbers' was from Prevost's online technical manuals in the 'Wheels, Hubs, & Tires' section. I wasn't saying that they were appropriate for my/our application - in fact, the reason I posted that info was to highlight the wide range of inflation/load numbers out there which add to the confusion of 'what's right' for idiots like me!Mike, thanks for the clarification. Only thing I can think of is that was for an empty shell. By the time the converter is done with it, it is a BUNCH heavier. Read, use and trust the tire charts and you will be fine.
No single set of values is going to be always right for all of these coaches. Michael, glad you have your tire pressure issue resolved.How you got there is not as important as the arrival at the final destination.POG should be a place for all that paid their fee to get their questions answered without contempt and ridicule.Negative comments only hurt POG and make those that lurk in the background hesitate to post and/or feel uncomfortable about it when they do.In this internet medium it is difficult at best to communicate technical information, questions and answers. Minute details left out or the way the question is asked or, or, or,. Make the difference between a satisfactory or failed resolution.
Often the answer comes by several in a dialog back and forth sorting out the details and getting the correct information. Then the correct answer comes.
The whole dialog is important to get to that point. No one came here to be judged categorized or classified. POG is a place to learn in a fraternal atmosphere.Good luck on your shifter endeavor and ask any question, you can always get the incorrect advice here for free.:) JIM. Ed et al.nobody pissed in my Corn Flakes. I want us to be safe. I may be bringing a pilot mentality to the table here but we must realize we are aiming 45,000 plus pounds of metal down the road and our training has to go beyond finding the key.We are adults here and if a grump like me chastising us all is going to get someone's nose out of joint so be it.These things we drive are not toys.
They are complex, heavy, large missles and I want to know I share the highway with other owners who at least know and understand how to drive them safely. I think safety starts by knowing the tires are properly inflated, the braking system is functioning properly, and the lights all work. I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation. My safety and those of others on the road is not compromised if an owner does not understand the house systems, but if as a group we are struggling with how to determine the proper tire pressures then I wonder if the tires are even being checked, and if any other pre-trip checks are being made to insure the safety of all who share the same road.Feel free to disagree. Just let me know who disagrees so I can be sure to stay some distance away while on the highway. We took the left 'console' apart this afternoon and removed the shift selector module to try and clean any contacts on the shift pads. Unfortunately, what I found is that the shift selector module is a sealed box without any way to access the inner workings, such as the backs of the shift selector pads.
I unplugged the module, did my best to clean the contact pins that the harness plugs into, put it back together and crossed my fingers. The unit functioned (or didn't function, as it were) just as it has since the problem began.
To wit - all the selector pads respond appropriately to a push of the finger except the 'D' (drive) pad. Fortunately, the 'D' pad can still be selected by using the blunt end of a writing pen to depress it. I guess that seals my fate. I've got a call into the W.W. Williams tech/mechanic to arrange to have the shift module replaced.
I don't know what else to do and I'm loathe to depend on the 'pen poke' work around as a long term solution. It would be just my luck to have that little trick stop working at a most inopportune time!:eek. Michael, sorry to hear your efforts were fruitless. You are probably right in having them fix it and then you will be confident it will work as it should, and you can enjoy your coach.good effort though!Thanks for the kind words, Pete! With the shifter issue and the tire inflation debacle I created, I've been feeling pretty 'stoopid' lately. I have half jokingly blamed a lot of my 'comprehension issues' on my damaged brain (I really am brain damaged - that's no joke), but as Ron White (my favorite comedian) says, 'You can't fix stupid.' :p I've been driving intercity buses and bus conversions since 1980, but have never dealt with the sheer systemic and component level complexity that exists on my Prevost XLV.
The old Eagle passenger coaches and entertainer conversions that I owned or drove were very simple in comparison to today's Prevost conversions - plus I always had a trusted local service facility to take care of any issues outside of my comfort zone (Bluebonnet RV and Bus Service - Rosenburg, TX). The owners, Phil & Cindy Howell, ran a fleet of Eagle entertainer coaches of their own and had a mechanic on staff, 'Slick', who knew the Eagle buses like the back of his hand! They always kept my Eagles in tip-top shape and taught me tons about them along the way.Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of relationship here in Georgia yet and with my disability/mobility issues - it keeps me from 'digging in' hands-on with things that I would have tackled in a heartbeat in my prior life.Now, I depend alot on the POG braintrust to point me in the right direction when questions/issues arise and I'm continually in awe of the collective knowledge and generosity here! I do listen to you guys, even when you 'take me to task'!:o. Michael, I know exactly where Bluebonnet RV is. I pass by there on my way to visit a friend in Rosenberg.We sometime just have to bite the bullet and have these type things fixed and pay the piper. I have owned Prevost coaches for about 12 or 13 years now and if you take good care of them, have them regularly maintained by Prevost you will enjoy them for many years.
It can get costly at times, but they do warrant their repairs.Granted, some have the tools, facilities, and the ability to do a lot of the work, but all of us have to have repairs made by a repair facility on occasion.nothing wrong with that. But in the end there is nothing like a Prevost! Michael,There are lots of folks here that will help you through the various operational and maintenance needs of your Prevost. This is a pretty direct group, you will get answers that are fact driven and not sugar coated to make you feel good. We all have been on the receiving end of solutions that make us feel like we're just not up to speed on these somewhat complicated machines.However, I do have to raise a concern and hope you don't take it the wrong way. Not knowing the severity of your injury, I do hope the comprehension issues you experience do not have any effect on your ability to safely transport your family and deal with the complexity that exists (your words) of the bus and surrounding dangerous truck and car traffic. People have no regard for the size of our buses and the long distance it takes to get stopped.We have lost one member due to a preventible none driving accident and you will find that many on the site truly have your well being at heart and if you get spanked, it's because that's just the way it is!;).
Michael,There are lots of folks here that will help you through the various operational and maintenance needs of your Prevost. This is a pretty direct group, you will get answers that are fact driven and not sugar coated to make you feel good. We all have been on the receiving end of solutions that make us feel like we're just not up to speed on these somewhat complicated machines.However, I do have to raise a concern and hope you don't take it the wrong way. Not knowing the severity of your injury, I do hope the comprehension issues you experience do not have any effect on your ability to safely transport your family and deal with the complexity that exists (your words) of the bus and surrounding dangerous truck and car traffic.
People have no regard for the size of our buses and the long distance it takes to get stopped.We have lost one member due to a preventible none driving accident and you will find that many on the site truly have your well being at heart and if you get spanked, it's because that's just the way it is!;)Tom- I didn't take offense to your comments and concerns in the least! I understand - particularly given the limited information I've disclosed thus far.So, here's the whole story. Have a seat, this will take a while.On May 4th, 2004, I had a horrific accident on my Harley-Davidson near my home in Chicago (A young girl pulled out from a side street and hit me.) I was rushed to the hospital where they gave me a 5% chance of surviving through the night. I had a traumatic brain injury and had emergency brain surgery to remove a clot the size of a human fist that had shifted my entire brain over to the left side of my skull. I was in a deep coma for 32 days (3 on the Glascow scale - the worst) and then in various hospitals for another three months. I was in a wheelchair for about 6 months.
Against all odds I slowly recovered, although I am permanently disabled and haven't worked since the accident (except for a couple of consulting engagements lasting 2-3 months each that I took at the request of friends/ex-colleagues) and a part-time member services job at a local gym for about a year.Also I'm fortunate that, because I was wearing my leathers (but alas, no helmet), I was spared any visible or disfiguring physical injuries, so my appearance hasn't changed (not to say that I was any special prize before the accident!). I sold my home in Chicago and moved back to Georgia (after 19 months in Chicago) at the end of November 2004 to be near family and friends.Several months after the accident, I was cleared to drive after testing by a neurologist and a rehabilitation doctor. When I returned to Georgia, I retested for my CDL License and passed the written test with a perfect score, the driving test with no noted concerns, and the DOT physical with flying colors. I do walk with a 'spastic gait' and my left arm/hand are partially paralyzed.
My 'brain issues' are really more centered around short term memory issues. My reaction time, vision, etc are unaffected. Actually, the thing that bothers me most in social situations is my voice. I had a tracheostomy for 6 weeks and it left one of my vocal chords paralyzed, a large amount of scar tissue around my trachea and my trachea below the tracheostomy site narrowed to about 1 milimeter (normal is about 2.5 milimeters).
The result is that my voice is very hoarse and weak and it requires a lot of effort for me to 'converse' at length.But you know what? I have no complaints! I'm just happy to be alive, that I have a beautiful Prevost bus, and that the most incredible woman I've ever met agreed to marry me on December 6, 2008!In closing this epistle, I want to reiterate that I love being a part of POG and look up to many of the members here who are so knowlegeable and so generous with their knowledge!Thank you for being so kind to me and Vita (especially when I pester you with 'idiot questions'!:o. Today, Vita and I called the W.W.
Williams technician at home and arranged to have him meet us at the W. Williams location near downtown Atlanta to purchase the new shifter module. We told him that we just wanted to purchase the part and install it ourselves to save money. No problem.The W.W. Williams tech, Brian, met us at the (closed on Sunday) shop and proceeded to install the new shift module for us on his personal time at no addtional cost! The new module works perfectly and the shift pads are not 'rubbery' like the old style module was.
The new pads have a solid feel that simply 'depress' slightly like a button when you press them - a much more substantial feel!I know that some are not fans of W.W. Williams (for bus work), but I must say that based on this experience, I have no complaints!Thanks to all of you that offered suggestions, guidance, and support!
The mode button doesn't work with all coaches. It doesn't do anything with my chassis.I am familiar with the Allison 3000 and 4000 series. The mode button certainly functions as described on them.I do not know if/how the mode button functions on the gasoline chassis with smaller Allisons.You might call Allison:Allison help line 800 252 5283And to verify mode button function, next time you are accelerating from a stop in regular mode (Mode OFF), note the max RPM's in each gear before it up-shifts when you are at WOT (Wide Open Throttle). Repeat with mode button ON. You should notice a real difference in max RPM before the shift, with it shifting earlier (lower RPM) in Mode ON.Brett Wolfe.
Brett,Again thanks for the Allison information.I have another question. My 2003 Newmar KS has 32,310 miles on it which is about 5,500 miles on average driven per year (not very much.) Ususally I just get in the RV, turn the key on and put it into gear (I've never used the economy mode).Now I'm planning the 7-8,000 trip in June and would like to get the best performance out of the engine/transmission and also not abuse the engine/transmission.So I plan to use the economy mode and down shift as needed. When in mountains I'll move into regular mode. I usually leave the exhaust brake on, which I find helps both in stop and go traffic and coming down a hill.My question is about accelerating and general highway driving. From a complete stop is it better to slowly depress the gas pedal to come up to speed or to fully depress and let RV come up to the appropriate speed (safety first) and then back off the pedel?Then, for highway crusing, again safety first along with speed limits, does the Cat 3126 perform better at 60, 65, or 70 mph? While the RV will get up 75 mph, I find 65 mph is a comforable highway speed. The Michelin tires 275/70R22.5 I think are rated for 65 mph.Also, I'm told that when coming off the highway that the engine should idle/cool down a few minutes before it is shut off.
Does that make sense?Thanks again,DougC. Brett,Again thanks for the Allison information.My question is about accelerating and general highway driving. From a complete stop is it better to slowly depress the gas pedal to come up to speed or to fully depress and let RV come up to the appropriate speed (safety first) and then back off the pedel?Then, for highway crusing, again safety first along with speed limits, does the Cat 3126 perform better at 60, 65, or 70 mph? While the RV will get up 75 mph, I find 65 mph is a comforable highway speed. The Michelin tires 275/70R22.5 I think are rated for 65 mph.Also, I'm told that when coming off the highway that the engine should idle/cool down a few minutes before it is shut off.
Does that make sense?Thanks again,DougCpedalcruisingcomfortableDoug,Best MPG when accelerating from a stop is to accelerate slowly until you reach 6th gear.Best economic cruise speed with the 3126 is between 1500 and 1650 in 6th gear. Faster is OK, but WILL use more fuel.And if coming off the highway, you should idle the engine for about 3 minutes to cool down the turbo. For 99% of the CG's we pull into, by the time you pull up to the office, you have ample cool down time and can turn it off. It is on-freeway rest stops and fuel stops where you are going from highway speed to stopped that you have to pay attention to this.For more information on driving economically, read this Caterpillar Document:Brett Wolfe. HiI have a 2005 KS Pusher 330 Cummins and Allison. This push button thing total confuses me! Give me 9 speed manuel any time.I can't seem to feel when I need to downshif on the climb or if it is auto shift.
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I'm short, so I have to look over and behind my left arm to see the mode. Do I have the economy? I down shift as I get steeper, and also use my jake down hill and stop and go.
I think the worst pull have been on so far is HWY 160 from I-15 in Vegas to Pahrump NV. That was work! The worst road I wrongly got on was Hwy CA 178 from Lake Isabella, CA to Bakersfield, CA.
Not for the weak of heart!ThanksCookie. HiI have a 2005 KS Pusher 330 Cummins and Allison. This push button thing total confuses me! Give me 9 speed manual any time.I can't seem to feel when I need to downshift on the climb or if it is auto shift.
I'm short, so I have to look over and behind my left arm to see the mode. Do I have the economy? I down shift as I get steeper, and also use my jake down hill and stop and go. I think the worst pull have been on so far is HWY 160 from I-15 in Vegas to Pahrump NV.
That was work! The worst road I wrongly got on was Hwy CA 178 from Lake Isabella, CA to Bakersfield, CA.
Allison Transmission Codes List
Not for the weak of heart!ThanksCookieCookie,Indeed, your Allison 3000 series 6 speed transmission has a mode button as I described above (first post in this thread).And NO transmission is PROactive. Only you can see that you are going from down hill to an 8% upgrade and need to downshift to keep up speed. If you are comfortable with a manual transmission, use the UP and DOWN arrows to select the gear YOU want.And with a Cummins 330 HP, you will not have a Jake brake (also known as an engine compression brake). The Cummins ISL is the smallest engine with an option of a Jake brake. You will have an exhaust brake, though it could be manufactured by Jacobs Corp- a little confusing.If your shift pad is MIS placed (my opinion- if it does not fall readily to hand without requiring you to take your eyes off the road to find it), consider moving it.
Most shift pads come with plenty of cabling to allow you to relocate it to a more convenient position.Brett Wolfe. Mike,Welcome to the FMCA Forum.Two different answers- dependent on whether your engine coolant temperature is OK or if you are starting to overheat.If coolant temperature is not a problem, Caterpillar's recommendation in writing for max MPG is to allow the engine to lug down to peak torque RPM before downshifting. That is 1,440 RPM for your engine. And economy mode should be programmed to do just that- shift down when you are heavy into the throttle and RPM drops to 1,440 (or a little above). Said another way, the Allison ECU is programmed to do what Caterpillar recommends.Obivously, if a few more miles an hour up that hill are important to you (AND you are willing to pay for the drop in fuel mileage) downshift, raise engine RPM and you will go a FEW MPH faster. For an excellent discussion of performance and MPG, read this Caterpillar Corp document (makes good reading irrespective of what brand engine you have- physics is physics):If coolant temps start to rise, raising engine RPM (and backing out of the throttle a little) will lower engine temperatures. It takes XX HP to go up a hill at YY speed.
And producing that HP produces a certain heat load. If the engine is turning over at 2,100 RPM instead of, say, 1500 RPM, the water pump and fan are turning a lot faster and can dissipate a lot more heat load.Also, be sure to read this thread to reduce overheating:Brett Wolfe. Thank you for the info.
No problems with overheating yet. Went to AZ two weeks ago, drove through 110 degree heat.I now find myself looking for threads you have started.Thanks again.mikeMike,The FMCA Forum makes it easy to search for any other member's TOPICS or POSTS.On the upper left of a member's post, scroll over their NAME (wolfe 10 in my case).You will see a 'down arrow' appear when you scroll over their name.
CLICK on it.Scroll down to 'Find Member's Topics' or if you want to view all of a member's posts to 'Find Member's Posts'. CLICK on it.That will bring up a list of that member's TOPICS or POSTS starting with the most recent at the top.Brett Wolfe. My rig has a CAT C7 with Allison 6 sp. There are some significant RPM ranges that the book discusses with respect to manual shifting in differing terrain.
In order to take advantage of RPM and not put stress on the transmission by improper shifting, I marked my gage with colored tape as a handy reference for staying within the proper RPM values.With the gage marked, I have found that the statement ' And economy mode should be programmed to do just that- shift down when you are heavy into the throttle and RPM drops to 1,440 or a little above)' doesn't always happen. I am wondering if there is a terrain variable. Meaning that on steeper grades, you will need to monitor RPM and manually shift before it drops below that magic number.Good info on the mode button. I've never found much difference in fuel mileage using the mode button, but it certainly does eliminate the need to manually downshift when I come to the hill that's just a bit steeper than the others.
If no other reason that was mentioned, I can keep my eyes on the road. With the gage marked, I have found that the statement ' And economy mode should be programmed to do just that- shift down when you are heavy into the throttle and RPM drops to 1,440 or a little above)' doesn't always happen. I am wondering if there is a terrain variable. Meaning that on steeper grades, you will need to monitor RPM and manually shift before it drops below that magic number.No, the Allison ECU can not sense grades, only RPM (both output and engine /input) and throttle position.So at the same throttle position it SHOULD hold that gear down to the same RPM each time with that RPM being different in regular vs economy mode.BUT, if you were at, say 85% throttle vs 100% throttle, it SHOULD be different.Brett Wolfe. Well, still just getting my feet wet with the operation of our first diesel. I decided to try the economy mode on the Allison 6-speed transission to see if it really made a difference.We drove over 300-plus miles towing our car down to Ignacia, Colo., without the economy mode.
Allison Transmission Problems Shift Selector
On the way back we took the exact same route, which went over several steep passess up to 11,000 feet throught the Rocky Mountains. Wen we finished our trip we got an extra 1 mpg using the economy mode. I really did not notice too much difference in the speed we were able to maintain, other than the transmission seemed to work a lot less hard. To me, it's an easy decision on which mode to use.
On our recently purchased 2005 Endeavor with 400 HP Cummins, pushing the mode button does not turn the light on. Don't know if supposed to or not applicable on this model.Welcome to the FMCA Forum.Easy to test:Accelerate in power mode, noting max engine RPM in each gear.Do the same with the mode button on.If the shifts are at lower RPM with mode on, it is working- and perhaps the bulb is bad???Let us know what you find.Certainly, any Allison dealer can connect their computer and tell you.Brett. Have 2006 HR Neptune with an Allison 5 spd, with a Cummins ISB 300. Transmission manual recommends not using in economy mode in city driving or mountains. What is your opinion?Welcome to the FMCA Forum.You might go back to the first post in this topic- it covers the HOW it works and my observation on how I use it.The how it works is FACTUAL.
The WHEN to use is is based on our individual preferences/opinions.We just drove home from Albuquerque- used economy mode 100% of the trip. If I had hit a passing situation on a two lane road where I would be happy to trade a lot of fuel for a little more performance, I would have selected power mode for that situation.Brett.
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